Dee->> A thing that would be to me absolutely essential is that there's got to be an autonomous non-human natural world. If there aren't animals living their own lives and plants living their own lives, and if it were all made so that all other species were simply for the benefit of humans and they were our slaves, then that seems to me that's a world that's dead spiritually. Yes, it's very, very important to me that there should be some type of wilderness, in the sense of creatures that are not under our thumb. People talk about the human race dying out. But they don't necessarily mention the other species. I would not be at all happy if the human race survived but other species were completely subsumed to our purposes. That to me would be a world that was dead and I wouldn't want to live in it. You ever read any African tales? If they have a traditional element to them, a lot of African writing, even quite sophisticated writing, does still keep something from traditional African stories. I'm thinking of central Africa, Nigeria, and that sort of area. You get the sense of the teeming forest, full of what you can either see as animals or as spirits, it doesn't matter. But it's teeming with creatures, and you go through it and you're frightened and you have dealings with all these creatures. I think that's a thing that we mustn't lose. We need the sense of a teeming life, that is not our own life, that is alien to us.

mk->> In terms of the work that you do now, do you see it as moving into that vision of the world?

Dee->> Oh yes.

mp->> Do you feel that it's necessary to have a vision of an alternate world you're working towards, or do you feel like it's enough to have some values that you know you're guided by and just keep moving forward?

Dee->> Yes. But it would be very difficult, wouldn't it, for a group to have a cohesive communal vision without all falling out with each other. And I would not like a prescription, partly because the best things that happen tend to be completely surprising and unpredicted, don't they? And so you must at least leave space for the unplanned. But maybe we leave too much space for the unplanned, so we get rabble coming in drunkenly doing things on our tails. And that happens. But, I don't think prescription is good. It makes for boring, boring organizations like all these Trot organizations and Marxist organizations with dogmas. Which are deadening aren't they? They deaden the creativity, and people think, "Oh, well, I've got to, yes, trot out that one and adhere to that one." And that is certainly deadening of creativity. So, I think probably not, but of course, it's dangerous. The way we work is dangerous. But then, we're in lethal danger anyway, aren't we?

 

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